High Mountains with glaciation

[cajomi]

I am just adding a new selection mode for erosions, called "placed". This allows more control over the starting points and make effects like glaciers possible.
This will be available in the next build, the settings for this terrain also!

[mauronen]

Cool!
I can't wait for next build and final release!

[monks]

Wow! I think GC is up there with 'GeoTerSys' in terms of fluid 'sim'. This is great stuff! Been playing myself and I'm going to use GC for some water runs :)

monks

[paulajane]

Beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Happy New Year.

[lachsack]

same as mauronen and paulajane

[ElThommo]

WOW, that is seriously impressive!
Happy new year!

[Seven-D.]

Great work Cajomi!
I'm really impressed.

You said, this terrainsettings can be found in the new build 27.
But I can't see it anywere. Could you point out where to find it, please? I'd really like to play around with the new feature in this terrain.

[cajomi]

I did post the links in the newsletter, but not here.
So here are the links:

Glaciation (http://www.cajomi.de/Download/Presets/placed_erosion4h.gts)

Sharp ridges (http://www.cajomi.de/Download/Presets/thin_invers.gts)

[Seven-D.]

Great!
Thanks a lot.

[Xpleet]

Hey cajomi what is this one rendered in?

Also does GC2 have an own render to make it look nearly like that?

[cajomi]

This is rendered in GeoControl2. Well, the renderer is really improved compared to version1.

[Xpleet]

This is rendered in GeoControl2. Well, the renderer is really improved compared to version1.

Very nice and the textures!

Now we only need some clouds and sky :D

I was just wondering about these glaciers cause I have used World Machine before where you could set the rockhardness and a few other factors like carry sediment and by that create this glacier effect it was all in their 1 erosion system which woud produce all kinds of erosion effects.

[cajomi]

GeoControl2 also has one erosion system, but with 15 different, combinable erosions.

You can not simulate the very different forms of natural erosions with only one erosion type. And GeoControl does not work with physical parameters, but is more result orientated, means you set the power, slope dependence, start points (very important to not only control the amount of water, but also where a erosion can start) and some other parameters. GeoControl does not try to simulate the erosion process itself, which is definitly not possible on a pc, erosion is really complex, a long term process with permanently changing paramenters.
For example, a typical alpin mountain was created by rising earth quakes, then typical fluvial erosion. With higher rising, the erosion changed to thermal erosion, then changed to permafrost erosion, and then oszillate between glacial, permafrost and fluvial erosion over long time. Additional chemical processes and the angle of the different stratas gives the typical differences in between alpin structures. Also of course, it is very important, if the raised part (that before the continental shift begin to rise these parts) were below the water. Many alpin structures are based on corals. The main materails are lime and dolomite.
So what do you think: Can such processes be simulated within some minutes on a pc?
All simulation is not really a simulation of how the erosion works, but result orientated. The difference in GeoControl is, that it does not try to give the impression, that it is a simulation of the processes. As I said, it is a process that simulates the typical results.
That is, why GeoContol offers different combinable modules for erosion. This makes it possible to simulate really different processes over time, which have typical final results or outlooks.

BTW: I disagree, that you can create this glaciation effect with WM. Both produce different results, and if you have seen many images of both, you will be able to say for the most images at once, which erosion was created with GeoControl and which with WM.

[Xpleet]

You can not simulate the very different forms of natural erosions with only one erosion type. And GeoControl does not work with physical parameters, but is more result orientated, means you set the power, slope dependence, start points (very important to not only control the amount of water, but also where a erosion can start) and some other parameters. GeoControl does not try to simulate the erosion process itself, which is definitly not possible on a pc, erosion is really complex, a long term process with permanently changing paramenters.
For example, a typical alpin mountain was created by rising earth quakes, then typical fluvial erosion. With higher rising, the erosion changed to thermal erosion, then changed to permafrost erosion, and then oszillate between glacial, permafrost and fluvial erosion over long time. Additional chemical processes and the angle of the different stratas gives the typical differences in between alpin structures. Also of course, it is very important, if the raised part (that before the continental shift begin to rise these parts) were below the water. Many alpin structures are based on corals. The main materails are lime and dolomite.
So what do you think: Can such processes be simulated within some minutes on a pc?
All simulation is not really a simulation of how the erosion works, but result orientated. The difference in GeoControl is, that it does not try to give the impression, that it is a simulation of the processes. As I said, it is a process that simulates the typical results.
That is, why GeoContol offers different combinable modules for erosion. This makes it possible to simulate really different processes over time, which have typical final results or outlooks.

Yes! That really was what confused me as a WM user when i saw Geo Control.

In WM you know you make a basic mountain that is terraced and then apply the erosion to it and termal weathering and what have you. I do this in GC sometimes aswell tho.




I disagree, that you can create this glaciation effect with WM. Both produce different results, and if you have seen many images of both, you will be able to say for the most images at once, which erosion was created with GeoControl and which with WM.
Definatly.

WM has an erosion that does not like curving at all. And that's basically what i didn't like..

WM 2.0 will be released later this year, it will be definatly a nice thing to look at.


But with 15 different types of erosions of GC? ..sounds like you could make your own presets that look very much like WM.


What I think GC yet has to show is the abrubt kind of broken out erosion as seen in these:

http://world-machine.com/gallery/terrain1.jpg

http://world-machine.com/gallery/terrain3.jpg

This looks like the new type that you have presented in this thread but in a WM style that isn't curvy at all :P.

In this picture you can see another terrain that i yet consider WM unique.

http://world-machine.com/user_gallery/tiwiwine1.jpg

Straight going Erosions as usual but with very small vertical features! ( left side of the pic )

And another thing, i suppose the texturing system of GC2 works in a way that by the angle of the slope the decision is made what texture the particular area is covered with? We do like that in the CryEngine.

[cajomi]

I think for a deep discussion about WM this here is not the right place.

I had used WM before I started to develope GeoControl...., I was more a landscape artist (with deep coding skills however) and I felt, that there really was the need for another terrain generator. My favorite at that time was "Terraformer". I only used WM for post erosion. I found, the problems started, when you need an erosion for a terrain, which did not destroy or smooth the terrain but add erosion structures.
Nether the less, for a longer time, the WM erosions were the best you could get.

But you will not find that erosions in GC. I am thinking about a snow algorithm (or sand) which will produce very similiar results as the WM erosion, it will distribute snow or sand, with the typical structures (very linear).
Also, for the higher parts, in the area just below the permafrost, where those hard edged structures are produced, I am planning a thermal erosion (not those thermal smoothing, but real thermal erosion). But that will definitly not look like that WM "cracks".

[Criss]

With thermal erosion am i to assume effects like the image on the left and any thoughts on angeled terraces?

[Xpleet]

Let me disturb you with just few more dumb question :P

Is it possible to import/export ANY terrain TEXTURE from/to GC2?

Which formats are supported and to which DETAIL? Or is the texture detail/resolution just a matter of rendering power or time?

[Criss]

Let me weigh in here to answer this.

You can export textures and masks/selections made within GeoControl as bitmaps.

As for terrains you have these export options:

Raw 32 bit: A format within GeoControls workings.
Ter: A 16 bit format for Terragen and 3dsMax.
Raw 16 bit: For Daz Carrara.
Heightfield Greyscale.
PGM: For Daz Bryce.
TGA: For e-on Vue and Pov Ray.
OBJ: Lightwave object mesh.
Normal Map.
Tiff 16 bit greyscale: For using as displacement and procedurals inside e-on Vue.

For import options you have:

Raw 32 bit: A format within GeoControls workings.
Ter: A 16 bit format for Terragen and 3dsMax.
Raw 16 bit: For Daz Carrara.
R32: From World Machine.
PGM: For Daz Bryce.
TGA: For e-on Vue and Pov Ray.
Image Imports: bmp, jpg, png, tif and tga.

[Xpleet]

Let me weigh in here to answer this.

You can export textures and masks/selections made within GeoControl as bitmaps.

As for terrains you have these export options:

Raw 32 bit: A format within GeoControls workings.
Ter: A 16 bit format for Terragen and 3dsMax.
Raw 16 bit: For Daz Carrara.
Heightfield Greyscale.
PGM: For Daz Bryce.
TGA: For e-on Vue and Pov Ray.
OBJ: Lightwave object mesh.
Normal Map.
Tiff 16 bit greyscale: For using as displacement and procedurals inside e-on Vue.

For import options you have:

Raw 32 bit: A format within GeoControls workings.
Ter: A 16 bit format for Terragen and 3dsMax.
Raw 16 bit: For Daz Carrara.
R32: From World Machine.
PGM: For Daz Bryce.
TGA: For e-on Vue and Pov Ray.
Image Imports: bmp, jpg, png, tif and tga.

Thx Criss.

I'm glad that GC2 finally has a rendering engine that can maybe make TerraGen some rival :D

Maybe some time in the future when cajomi has some over time and he would like to add some volumetric clouds to the render engine, that'd be absolutely awesome! And they're easy to render!

[Criss]

In the sense of advanced terrain creation it does rival Terragen but it is made to compliment the renderer only that i have not been using Terragen due to the difficulty of TGs work flow so i have to research another renderer but it's not easy. Cajomi had mentioned making GeoControl into a full blown renderer but he would need 2-3 more people to write code with. I can't agree that volume clouds are easy to render though. The very nature of volumetric shaders are going to be slow to render and also some very few clouds look very real (Terragen 2) while others look like water color paintings (Vue). Shaping clouds also and creating large scale cloud systems is also very hard to do. Most of the time clouds never look interesting enough because the technology and ease of use is just not there yet.

[cajomi]

Thanks Criss, I can only agree!

To your question about thermal ersosion:
It is planned. Well, whether it produces fans is not sure. Fans are relaltively seldom and in the image on the left, they are not caused be fluvial erosion, but more by the glacier (where the rest is still as snow visible), which transport much material to the bottom which then catches the sediments.
Thermal erosion will produce sediments below the permafrost height, but not that glacial transport.
To the image on the right: Also this sediment looking parts were flattened before by glaciers. Imagine that the mid height mountain on the right was totally covered by a glacier. So, that are not sediments, but flattend by a glacier and then broken into finer material by thermal erosion.
You see, at all, for a complete simulation also a glaciation algorithm is needed. The thermal erosion is mostly for creating those awesome looking broken tops like they are typical for the dolomiten and the typical sedimentend areas below.

[Criss]

Indeed these are very interesting process' and neat to think about.

As for the Thermal Erosion and Glaciation algorithms. All i can say is all in due time. In the meantime i have no doubt there is more exciting stuff down the feature set for GeoControl.

Going to have to get Modo fired up here real soon. Been busy with Spiral Graphics as well.